On dragons, friendship, iguanas and sneaking in sub-plots: Brian Moses and Ed Boxall chat about collaborating on children's books
Ed Boxall (left) & Brian Moses (right) find their groove
Brian Moses and Ed Boxall have worked together on a number of books as well as performing together as authors, poets, musicians and educators. They’re both equally well known for their solo projects, but how have they found the process of collaborating? Are they chalk and cheese, or peas in a pod? And what can we expect from their two latest picture books, Walking with my Iguana and Dragons’ Wood?
The two of you have collaborated on several books across different genres. How have you found the process of working together on these two picture books, compared to working on, say, poetry collections?
Brian: It’s been a really enjoyable collaborative process. We’re fortunate to live within 20 miles of each other, so it’s easy to meet in a coffee shop halfway between us and look at Ed’s illustrations. What Ed produces always amazes me, but at the same time he’s always open to suggestions too.
The dark shadows of Dragons’ Wood
Ed: I love doing the artwork for Brian’s poems because they’re full of brilliant pictures that I can illustrate. The two picture books were quite different. Dragons’ Wood is very much my world: it's dark, shadowy and full of hidden magic. I loved illustrating it because it allowed me to celebrate my son exploring woods. So, although I’m illustrating Brian’s poem it's a really personal book for me. I also had a great time developing how my dragons look. I deliberately looked at old medieval dragons in engravings and illuminated manuscripts rather than slick modern filmic dragons. I like imagery that’s a little rough, primitive and organic. I like to be able to see that a human has made it - I'm not a fan of things that are too perfect!
With Walking with my Iguana it was exciting to illustrate for different reasons. It was more out of my comfort zone. It's a bright, sunny, cheerful, primary coloured book - and the first book I've done like this in a long time! To learn how to draw an iguana I got a realistic toy iguana and drew it over and over again. It was actually really difficult and it took a while to get the iguana the way I wanted. But that’s fine, I like things being difficult. I really enjoyed drawing the characters in the background too. I sat for a few hours in a cafe in Hastings and drew the passersby outside the window. So all the people in the background of the book are actually real people who were walking through Hastings on a particular day in 2017!
Hastings dog walkers? You never know when you might end up in a children’s book!
How did you first meet and start working together? Was there an immediate ‘click’ between you?
Brian: We met at the ‘Imagine’ festival at London’s Southbank Centre in 2015, where we were both performing. We talked about collaborating and when I needed a cover for my Lost Magic poetry collection, I contacted Ed. He was very keen to be involved and produced a stunning cover that was praised in most of the book’s reviews. After that we were both keen to continue working together.
Ed: We're both from a similar area in East Sussex so I’d heard Brian‘s name mentioned in schools for years before we met at the Southbank. Yes, I think we clicked!
Ed, you're a writer as well as an illustrator… how have you found the process of having to ‘put down’ you writer’s hat and collaborate purely as an illustrator?
Ed: I really like doing both illustrating and writing. With Brian’s work I often feel like I'm illustrating my own work, particularly with Dragons’ Wood because the settings and themes are very ‘me’. You'll find an awful lot of magical creatures and forests and British animals in both of our work! I think the best work is always personal. So, if it's not personal to begin with, I have to find a way of making it so. For example, Dragons’ Wood became all about my own family's experience of exploring the woods, and Walking with my Iguana ended up having lots of details from my home town Hastings in it.
Work-in-progress: making a start on the final spread for ‘Dragons’ Wood’
Brian, you’ve performed Walking with my Iguana as a poem many times, so I imagine you had some quite strong images in your head… what was it like to then see someone else’s images?
Brian: I always thought that ‘Iguana’ could make a good picture book but I kept being told told that it wasn’t picture book material, until Martin West at Troika immediately saw the potential. Ed and I had preliminary talks about the book and his iguana is very much the kind of creature I had in mind. Initially, I was less sure about the sub-plot he developed in the book with the dog and the ball, but then I realised it added necessary detail to the pages that would make young readers want to return to the book and follow it though in another way.
Brian performing with his drum
The notion of walking your iguana on a beach is an original one… where did the inspiration come from?
Brian: I wrote the poem as something new for an Edinburgh Festival performance in 1998. I’d seen a newspaper article in the Hastings Observer about a man who, on very hot days, walked his iguana along the beach. I happen to love things that sound surreal but are actually true. I gave the poem a strong rhythm so that I could underpin it with my talking drum.
Who’s that dog…?
Ed, the dog in Dragons’ Wood has such an expressive face. Was it based on a dog you know?
Ed: Yes! It’s basically my own dog, Dixie. And the boy is based on my youngest son. When my son was younger he spent an awful lot of time exploring local woods with Dixie and a big stick.
Brian (left) with Ed (right)
Brian, what prompted you to write Dragons’ Wood?
Brian: The idea came after a visit to Groombridge Place in Kent where they had a dragons’ wood set out for kids to explore, as part of a wonderful trail they’d created through what they called ‘the enchanted forest’. I use the idea behind Dragons’ Wood a lot on my school visits: I get children to write their own poems about a mythical creature they don’t actually see, but find lots of evidence that it’s been around. It works well with mermaids, vampires, fairies, etc.
In what ways are the two of you either quite similar or very different?
Brian: I think we’re both fairly laid back. I enjoy Ed’s company and I respect his artistic talent. I haven’t been disappointed yet and don’t think I will be.
How have people reacted to each of the two books so far?
Brian: I’ve had a great response to Iguana from both children and teachers. It is the poem that most schools know me for and I can’t get away with leaving out a performance of it! With Dragons’ Wood children are eager to spot Ed’s hidden dragons.
Ed: People love the repetition and rhythm of Walking with my Iguana. It's a bright, fun, young book that’s fantastic for children to join in with. It also works as a quiet book for children to notice the different animals and notice the sub-story of the dog and the red ball.
With Dragons’ Wood it works well when I read it to a group, but it's particularly lovely when I read it just to one or two children, because there's so much hidden detail. It's lovely to read twice, going back to find things you didn’t notice first time around. Children particularly like looking at all the dragons on the final fold-out pages.
Do you do many joint performances and other events? How does it work… who does what?
Ed: We do! We quite often do events together in local libraries and bookshops.
Brian: We filled the 130-seat Stables Theatre in Hastings on a Sunday afternoon for the launch of Lost Magic. We take it in turns to perform and it becomes a multi-media session with Ed’s guitar playing, poems, stories and artwork, and my poetry and percussion.
What’s next… what are you working on now, whether together or separately?
Brian: We haven’t got another joint project at the moment but hopefully one will turn up. I’m two-thirds of the way through a children’s ghost story, putting together a new poetry collection, writing a series of picture books with my wife and about to launch into an anthology of funny poems. So, keeping busy!
Ed: I'm working on two new collections of poetry, some picture books and some ideas for young fiction. I also do artwork and greetings cards for galleries, and lots of educational projects in schools. So I'm really busy too!
Any advice you’d give people based on your experiences of working collaboratively with someone else?
Brian: When you hit it off as friends and are receptive to one another’s ideas, it makes for a pleasant alternative to the solitary performing life that we usually experience. I’m very pleased that Ed’s happy to work with an old codger like me!
Thanks very much guys - we look forward to reading your new books when they come out!
Check out Brian and Ed’s latest collaborative picture books…
